[Pappa]

Hi! I would like to retube my 5150 Tubes in now are two years old, Chinese 12ax7 V1, JJ ECC83S V2-V5 and Tung-sol 5881.

Amp has too much bite and treble, i would like a smoother sound.
 
Also maybe a little tighter and clearer sound but it is OK really (main problem is probably old power tubes).

Maybe:

V1: JJ ECC83S V1 selected
V2: JJ ECC83S
V3: TT 12ax7 (only JJ's may be too dark / muddy)
V4: TT 12ax7 (I feel a bright tube is best for the efx loop).
V5: JJ ECC83S Balanced

I have lots of JJ's and chinese preamp tubes laying around so i can mix and match V2-V4 myself, the critical parts is V1 and V5, would JJ's be okay?

Power tubes: JJ, SED or TT? TT would be too bright maybe? But the old owner said his favorite power tubes were TAD 6L6GC-STR, which is the same as the TT 6L6, right? I hear JJ's are really good for 5150's. I have a bias mod.
The most inportant thing is less treble and "bite". I have plenty of bass and mids

I tune to D and C# standard and play thrash / death metal with a lot of tight bass and a good bit of midrange.


Thanks!

[Dirk]

Hi,

for the V1 a selected would be OK but I would use a China / TT 12AX7 in that position. For the V5 you do not need a balanced tube.
Powertubs: that is a question of tast but the 5881 are doing a good job in that amp. If you can moddify the bias and make it adjustable you should do it too. The standard bias is pretty cold and you are loosing some dynamic touch.

Best regards, Dirk

[Pappa]

Hi. Are you sure about the TT 12AX7 in V1? I would like less bite and you describe the TT as very trebly! :-/

The 5881 needs to be replaced anyway i think. They are two years old! And the amp has a bias mod from before

I would like as smooth tubes as possible, with less bite and treble. I think the amp is really good in the bass/mids section.

Please recommend a set of power tubes.. thanks.

[bluesfreak]

Hi,

if you want less bite and a bit softer Sound try JJ 6L6 in the PowerAmp Section.
So far I had 2 5150 MKI here, one got SEDs the other one JJs, I digged the JJs better...
For the PreAmp Section TT ECC83 in V1 works well, 5751 also but you loose some gain, would be interesting to checkout the new JJ ECC803 in there, too...

cu
bluesfreak 

[Pappa]

Danke!

Dirk; are you saying i don't need a balanced phase inverter? 

This would be okay then:

V1 TT 12AX7 V1 selected version
V2-V3 JJ ECC83S or Chinese 12ax7 (i will mix and match for the best sound)
V4 Chinese 12ax7 (i like a brighter signal into the FX loop)
V5 TT 12AX7 or JJ ECC83S, not balanced

Power tubes JJ 6L6GC Red label

Okay? I have some TT/TAD/Shuguang chinese, electro-harmonix, and JJ ECC83/12AX7 lying around, i want a low microphonics selected TTfor V1, and maybe a balanced for V5 but if Dirk says it's not necessary I'll go with what i have. Using only JJ's makes the sound a bit "muddy" i think.

[Dirk]

Hi,

yes, you do not need a balanced preamp tube in this case. Try some combinations with the tubes you already got to see which combination will work best for you. After this is done we can talke about the powertubes and try to find a powertube which makes your sound "perfect".

Best regards, Dirk

[metalaxe]

I'm running TT in v1 and JJ in v2-v5 Groovetubes 6L6gcm-str in the poweramp (which are Shuguang).
I can only recommend that setup.
Plus, do the Biasmod!!

Here's a project I used that amp on (reamped the guitars since all the tracks have been recorded in another studio):

http://lsd-tonstudio.de/sounds/Testbounce%20Wise%20Crashmp3.mp3

(no post EQ was used!)

[Pappa]

Sounds good 

I'll try it out right now. Will report back.. BTW i am running TT V1, JJ V2-V5 just like you.

[Pappa]

Well!! I have tried different setups.

My fav. was this:

TT 12ax7 V1 - JJ V2-V5. With a JJ in V1 the tone was too muddy and with other tubes in V2-V5 it was too much sharp treble.
Power tubes TAD 5881.

Anyway, the tone is pretty good now. My settings are Lead gain 4, Bass 7.5, mids 2.5, treble 4, resonance 7, presence 2. If i turn the gain up to six i lose a lot of clarity and it goes muddy, if i turn gain even higher my low E string sounds like it's being ran into 50 fuzz faces with tone on 0 and then into the amp, very fuzzy sound on palm mutes, sounds like I'm playing with the neck pickup all the time. I read this was normal though so it's not a big problem

I still think the treble should be smoother. I have discovered a problem with my cab too i think, which may also be responsible for this problem (all the bass comes out the back (ported in the back), while mids and treble come out front... so i have to run bass really high..)

Also, my amp is way too loud.. i need a power brake or something like that..

[Dirk]

Hallo,

I know about the "problem" you desfribed with the gain settings. Based upon my experience this is because of a non optimal setting of the pickups. Please check the setting of your pickup on the guitar too and if it set correctly the sound will be much better even with higher gain.

Best regards, Dirk

[Pappa]

I have again corrected my power tubes setup; now it is like this:


V1: TAD 7025 (chinese) V2&V3: JJ ECC83S V4: TT 12AX7 (the TAD was a little bit less microphonic ) V5: Electro-Harmonix 12ax7

All are standard tubes, no matched / balanced / V1 / high gain tubes or anything.

Tone is very good!! I found out something, it seems the more mids i have the less smooth tone i get. The tone gets darker and less harsh when i turn the mids down. It still has a lot of midrange at 2, i tried recording a few clips today and it cuts through the mix like a razor with the mids on 2!! Below 1.5 the sound goes unclear and there's too little mids for my taste.. See the attachment to know what i mean, mids are on 2 only, and the mids are very strong

So what powertubes? I like the tone the best when the volume is between 2-4. Above 4.5 or so it loses a lot of definition and goes "hard" and it doesn't really become much louder, just more distorted (in a bad kind of way).

I am considering either JJ or TT 6L6. I would basically like something tight, clear and smooth.

Thanks.

[metalaxe]

Yeah, the 5150 has plenty of mids.
I as well think that "2" is a good value for the mids on a 5150...seems to be the "magical setting" or so ..

it's just not a good idea to tell someone, cause everyone's gonna call you a "! teH bro0tultz metullz nO03!!11!!11!" atm it's "in" to play with as many mids as possible to show how mature you are (esp. at HCAF)...so sshhhhh

[Pappa]

Yeah.. you NEED to use Bass 2 Mids 10 Treble 8, and master on 10, else you're a kid. And you need to have your amp Voodoo modded, and replace every part apart from the box and chassis
However, they all praise albums like Carcass's Heartwork, or the newer Kreator etc, which was recorded with a completely stock amp, with mids and volume on 2!
When you tell them that, they say "no it's something the studio people said so you can't copy their tone, get a Voodoo mod, try with the mids on 10 and crank the master up"

I think mids on 2 is the sweet spot too, but it sounds good from 1.5 - 4. I also think that it doesn't sound really good when you crank the volume, i think this amp likes a "clean" power stage (500 volts on the plates ). 4 - 5 is the limit, i like it at 2-3, i tend to keep it more at 2 because i want to keep my ears.. and my fiancée happy..

I set the bias at 63% of max. plate dispassion (a lot of people who sells tubes say 70%.. hmm). I think the bias mod does not make a very big difference with high gain IMO, but it makes the clean sound (a lot) better. I could use the clean from my amp on a recording, but i don't play country/jazz/whatever where you need an amazing clean anyway, i like to use what I got Without the bias mod the clean is horrible and sounds like a distorted car speaker :p

Anyone know how the JJ 6L6, the TAD 5881 and the TT 6L6-STR sound compared to each other?

[metalaxe]

Yeah.. you NEED to use Bass 2 Mids 10 Treble 8, and master on 10, else you're a kid. And you need to have your amp Voodoo modded, and replace every part apart from the box and chassis
However, they all praise albums like Carcass's Heartwork, or the newer Kreator etc, which was recorded with a completely stock amp, with mids and volume on 2!
When you tell them that, they say "no it's something the studio people said so you can't copy their tone, get a Voodoo mod, try with the mids on 10 and crank the master up"

I think mids on 2 is the sweet spot too, but it sounds good from 1.5 - 4. I also think that it doesn't sound really good when you crank the volume, i think this amp likes a "clean" power stage (500 volts on the plates ). 4 - 5 is the limit, i like it at 2-3, i tend to keep it more at 2 because i want to keep my ears.. and my fiancée happy..

I set the bias at 63% of max. plate dispassion (a lot of people who sells tubes say 70%.. hmm). I think the bias mod does not make a very big difference with high gain IMO, but it makes the clean sound (a lot) better. I could use the clean from my amp on a recording, but i don't play country/jazz/whatever where you need an amazing clean anyway, i like to use what I got Without the bias mod the clean is horrible and sounds like a distorted car speaker :p

Anyone know how the JJ 6L6, the TAD 5881 and the TT 6L6-STR sound compared to each other?

spot on!
mentioning Carcass and Kreator... I got some settings from Colin Richardson and Andy Sneap (the masters themselves) and they use Mids on 2 and master on like 2-3

the JJ are warmer, creamy, the TT a bit stiffer and very defined (good match for the 5150 IMO) the 5881 are Sovtek AFAIK I don't like them too much (somehow a bit too "cold" or "thin" sounding, but that's just a guess, haven't really tried them in that amp).

I also think the "bias-mod" is not a must but a really good thing to do, I still don't bias it very hot (I set it at like 32mA) but that reduced some of the fizz in the high-gain channels (crossover dist?).

cheerz

Lasse

P.S. that clip above was with mids on 2

[Dirk]

I am considering either JJ or TT 6L6. I would basically like something tight, clear and smooth.

In your case don't use the JJ 6L6. Try teh TT or EH 6L6. I think they will be the best choice for you.

Best regards, Dirk